Hope everyone had an enjoyable Thanksgiving.
Topice for discussion: what is the dumbest Supreme Court case ever? I nominate Nix v. Hedden.
Monday, November 28, 2005
Open Thread
Posted by Bell Curve at 12:41 PM
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| Bell Curve | The Law Talking Guy | Raised by Republicans | U.S. West | ||||||||||
| Well, he's kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace "accidentally" with "repeatedly," and replace "dog" with "son." | |||||||||||||
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60 comments:
I agree that it's dumb it made it to the Supreme Court, but I agree with the holding. It is a little gem of common sense. Simply put, there is a difference between the botanical and culinary definitions of fruit and vegetable. Botanically, a fruit is what contains a seed, while a vegetable is any other edible part of the plant. In a culinary sense, the term "vegetable" is also applied to any such "fruit" which is more savory than sweet, because it plays a different role in cooking. There's nothing wrong with conflicting definitions of this kind, and neither definition is inherently more accurate or 'scientific' than the other. The simple fact is that nobody ordinarly considers such things fruit as summer squash, zucchini, beans, peppers, tomatoes, or cucumbers.
As the SC wrote:
"Botanically speaking, tomatoes are the fruit of a vine, just as are cucumbers, squashes, beans, and peas. But in the common language of the people, whether sellers or consumers of provisions, all these are vegetables which are grown in kitchen gardens, and which, whether eaten cooked or raw, are, like potatoes, carrots, parsnips, turnips, beets, cauliflower, cabbage, celery, and lettuce, usually served at dinner in, with, or after the soup, fish, or meats which constitute the principal part of the repast, and not, like fruits generally, as dessert.
The attempt to class tomatoes as fruit is not unlike a recent attempt to class beans as seeds, of which Mr. Justice Bradley, speaking for this court, said: 'We do not see why they should be classified as seeds, any more than walnuts should be so classified. Both are seeds, in the language of botany or natural history, but not in commerce nor in common parlance. On the other hand in speaking generally of provisions, beans may well be included under the term 'vegetables.' As an article of food on our tables, whether baked or boiled, or forming the basis of soup, they are used as a vegetable, as well when ripe as when green. This is the principal use to which they are put. Beyond the common knowledge which we have on this subject, very little evidence is necessary, or can be produced.'"
NIX v. HEDDEN, 149 U.S. 304 (1893)
// posted by LTG
The dumbest (and most wicked) would be Dred Scott, followed closely by Korematsu and Plessy. But the list goes on and on. Lochner struck down ordinary hour/wage laws. A recent case said that the only provisions of US law that don't apply on Indian reservations are the bill of rights - about the only thing the Indians ever wanted from us.
In the Scottsboro boys cases from the 1930s, where nine black teenagers, including a 13 year old, were sentenced to death for a rape that never happened. Despite two SC reversals, Alabama was determined to convict and kill them. One even fled to Michigan where the Governor refused to extradite him.
The coolest SC case is Loving v. Loving, which struck down bans on interracial marriages.
// posted by LTG
Loving v. Virginia?
You are correct. I was confusing it with another case that came beforehand.
// posted by LTG
The other case was Naim v. Naim that the SC sent back for rehearing before taking Loving v. Virginia.
// posted by LTG
Loving v Loving must have been the first interracial divorce.
// posted by Raised By Republicans
Bush V. Gore
enough said.
// posted by USWest
Bush v. Gore surely was one of their worst decisions, but it does not seem to me to be "dumb" in the sense that a tomato a vegetable :-)
Actually, the decision saying that the census can't use statistical sampling, even though it is way more accurate than actually trying to count everyone, is the dumbest.
"For reasons of text and tradition, fully compatible with a constitutional purpose that is entirely sensible, a strong case can be made that an apportionment census conducted with the use of “sampling techniques” is not the “actual Enumeration” that the Constitution requires. "
Department of Commerce v. U.S. House of Representatives, 119 S. Ct. 765 (1999).
// posted by LTG
You're right, LTG... that's a pretty dumb decision re statistics.
OK, Doc S. But the US Supreme Court C doesn't have the monopoly on stupidity. The EU has directives that lay out the difference between a potato and a banana. One toothless people can eat raw and the other they can't. It had to be done in order to address a stupidity decision I believe. Maybe RBR can explain that.).
And the EU also has silly rules like bananas can't be curved. They must be straight. No wonder the average citizen of Europe thinks Brussels ( a leafy veggie, I think) is a waste of money.
// posted by USWest
US West, that sounds like a Euro-phobic "urban myth." I've read hundreds of EU directives and I can't remember any that bother to define the difference between different types of fruit. I don't suppose you remember where you heard about it?
That isn't to say they don't do some things that seem or are silly. But there are a lot of populist/nationalist people out there making stuff up.
// posted by Raised By Republicans
My post got truncated. I meant to point out that the difference between bananas and potatos had to be defined because it had to do with with some funding/subsidity issue which I can't remember.
I heard about that when I was studying the EU in France 10 years ago. This doesn't make it true, mind you. One of my UK friends told me about the bananas having to be straight.
However, a little research showed that indeed, much of this is a myth. And apparently one of the biggest sources is the anti-EU UK.
// posted by USWest
Actually, anything I heard from people on the street about the EU anywhere in Europe, I'd assume to be false before I checked it. We American intellectuals like to beat ourselves up for our citizens' not knowing much about our own political system. But we wrongly assume that Euroepans are any better.
Europeans are exceedinly badly informed about how the EU works. Their popular press is just as sloppy and poorly researched as ours in this regard. They print endless stories about the massive "Eurocracy" that inhabits Brussels and writes mountains of inane regulations. However the reality is that the EU employs fewer bureaucrats than a largish city and is far from capable of enforcing much of anything without the full cooperation of the Member States (which do have enormous bureaucracies).
I recently heard a relative complain that his job was made needlessly difficult because "EU regs" required excesive numbers of safety switches on mchines to do the same thing. He was talking about a machine installation he did in France. He repeatedly asserted his expertise in this area by saying he heard this straight from French engineers. However, I've read most of the directives on machine safety and nowhere do any require any specific switch (how many French engineers have read more than their company's safety pamphlet?). Instead they establish broad safety guidelines which the Member States are free to implement in their own ways (for example: there must be a way to shut off the machine in an emergancy). It is the French government that requires multiple switches not the EU. But French people blame the EU for all their problems are encouraged to do so by French politicians.
// posted by Raised By Republicans
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