tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post8884044199150094465..comments2024-01-03T05:23:36.046-08:00Comments on The Citizens: Some Thoughts on the ELCA and Social IssuesUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-31139066289734219552009-04-08T12:15:00.000-07:002009-04-08T12:15:00.000-07:00Good point LTG on New England. My perceptions of ...Good point LTG on New England. My perceptions of the New England Anglican elite is based mainly on my old history books about Boston Brahmins etc. <BR/><BR/>But anyway, I've been to some services at a small town ELCA church and they weren't giving off a conservative vibe to me and I'm pretty sensitive to religious conservatism. It was mostly innocuous "God is Love" stuff be tolerant of people who are different. My grandmother is a lay leader in that congregation and to the extent that she is representative of the over 65 (heck, over 95) opinion on these things, she's pretty laid back on a lot of social issues such as her gay daughter and "gal pastors" and stuff. <BR/><BR/>I'll conclude by saying that "tolerant-but-not-progressive" is good enough in the case of Iowa where the status quo is currently on the progressive side because of the court ruling. If local elites in Iowa are influenced by such a "tolerant-but-not-progressive" attitude in their local ELCA churches, they may be less receptive to reactionary movements targeting marriage equality.Raised By Republicanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03461006522141969925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-38002290963011797042009-04-08T09:27:00.000-07:002009-04-08T09:27:00.000-07:00New England is not run by Episcopal elites. This ...New England is not run by Episcopal elites. This is a misconception that derives in part from the fact the New York has the vestiges of an Episcopal elite from earlier in the last century.<BR/><BR/>While there is an elite Episcopalian cadre of sorts - or at least many wealthy people there are Episcopalians - they are not dominant politically or culturally. The famous private schools (Exeter, Choate, etc.) are largely non-denominational or puritan/congregationalist in origin (although St. Paul's in Concord, a dead givewaway, is affiliated with the Episcopal church). The Anglicans were a minority in a dissenter-majority community of New England. As they were often Tories, their numbers dropped after the revolution.<BR/><BR/>The main puritan-descended church is the Congregationalist church or the UCC. Harvard is not Anglican, nor is Yale. Both were Puritan/Congregationalist. Yale ended its affiliation with the UCC formally in 2005. <BR/><BR/>Culturally and politically, New England is Puritan and Catholic. Massachussets, Rhode Island, and to some extent Connecticut are politically dominated by Catholic (Irish/Italian/Portuguese) politics. See the Kennedys. <BR/><BR/>Note this is different from Hispano-Catholic politics, in that it is less likely to be conservative. It is also not the midwestern or mid-Atlantic German-Catholic or Slavic-Catholic (Polish, Czech) working class groups. <BR/><BR/>Vermont, Maine, and NH have much smaller RC populations, and a larger percentage of those, esp. in Maine, are French Canadian. Those smaller states tend to be UCC or Congregationalist rather than Anglican. Methodists also have a significant presence there because, after the Revolution, "Church of England" had a nasty ring to it.<BR/><BR/>I'm keying off that final line because I'm hoping, but not sure, that RBR's analysis of the religious/cultural background of the upper midwest is better than his offhand remark about New England. <BR/><BR/>I also want to add that I am not sure how progressive the ECLA is in the rural midwest. The Episcopal church has very liberal urban churches and some very liberal suburban and rural churches, but the bulk of the church is tolerant-but-not-progressive. And there are conservative elements, particularly in the South. The Episcopal clergy and leadership - self-selected by and large - is more progressive than the laity in the "heartland" areas of the country (in the South, they are more likely to be conservative too). So while they're not preaching Baptist hellfire crap (you know, God-is-gonna-get-you as opposed to God loves you), they are nonetheless not particularly progressive Christians in social areas.The Law Talking Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17886791396468512490noreply@blogger.com