tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post6673736595968956410..comments2024-01-03T05:23:36.046-08:00Comments on The Citizens: When Paris BurnsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-45287993310667362302007-11-30T08:04:00.000-08:002007-11-30T08:04:00.000-08:00Geez, the rioters are that young? I suppose I sho...Geez, the rioters are that young? I suppose I shouldn't be as surprised as I find myself being. <BR/><BR/>While it is true that the French economy is not particularly good at generating new jobs, I've heard that unemployment in these communities is far higher (like two or three times higher!) than in the population generally - even for those with university educations etc. So I think there is clearly circumstantial evidence that systematic racial discrimination is taking place with regard to access to the few jobs that are being created.Raised By Republicanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03461006522141969925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-15114424961946975142007-11-29T21:37:00.000-08:002007-11-29T21:37:00.000-08:00RBR's point is well taken. Yes, low hanging fruit ...RBR's point is well taken. Yes, low hanging fruit is a good idea. But I think that before you can discriminate in the job market, you have to have jobs on offer. And there are laws about discrimination in France as well. Of course, when someone doesn't get a job, it isn't always easy to know why and discrimination is going to happen regardless. <BR/><BR/>Secondly, 10 year olds, like the ones who were part of the riots, aren't in the job market. So while giving big brother a job might make him less inclined to complain, and thus make little brother less like to riot, it won't really put a ding in the much larger problem.<BR/><BR/>We don't require pictures on resumes, but we still have gang problems. <BR/><BR/>Pieds Noirs: The French will probably not discriminate against someone because they are Pied Noirs, but they will if they are obviously more Arab looking than French looking.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-14173938546978583752007-11-29T13:40:00.000-08:002007-11-29T13:40:00.000-08:00Well, the US practice of not allowing pictures has...Well, the US practice of not allowing pictures has probably promoted the practice of more face-to-face "screening" interviews.The Law Talking Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17886791396468512490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-88719367830783610042007-11-29T05:48:00.000-08:002007-11-29T05:48:00.000-08:00True, many North Africans have obviously Arabic na...True, many North Africans have obviously Arabic names. But what about all those mixed-race "Ped Noire" folks (like Zidane?)? Are they discriminated against too?<BR/><BR/>It wouldn't solve the problem but allowing employers to require photos certainly makes descrimination easier. Why not ban it and say why you are banning it? At the very least it would be symbolic of national intent not to tolerate bigotry. <BR/><BR/>I guess what I'm saying is before France debates the big reforms they obviously need, they should take care of the easy stuff first - even if it only helps a little bit.Raised By Republicanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03461006522141969925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-9919448175765667152007-11-28T22:18:00.000-08:002007-11-28T22:18:00.000-08:00well, photos aside. The names alone would be suffi...well, photos aside. The names alone would be sufficient to discriminate. Mohammed Yussifi is hardly French. Or, better yet, look at what school he went to. <BR/><BR/>That's the problem. Too much low hanging fruit in the discrimination process.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-51949508541453658062007-11-28T15:58:00.000-08:002007-11-28T15:58:00.000-08:00I have heard that it is common practice for prospe...I have heard that it is common practice for prospective employers to require photograph with your job application. I believe this would be illegal in the US.<BR/><BR/>This would seem to be an obvious ploy to discriminate against people who "look North African." <BR/><BR/>Instead of dumping money or having town hall meetings Sarko et al would do well to simply remove the obvious pillars of prejudice in French economy and law.<BR/><BR/>Banning photos as part of applications would do some good and it would be hard to argue against nor would it cost much to do.<BR/><BR/>So many in France wail and moan about all the difficult changes they would have to make to fix the situation but they don't even TRY to pick the low hanging fruit.Raised By Republicanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03461006522141969925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-35307495050092914082007-11-28T13:59:00.000-08:002007-11-28T13:59:00.000-08:00Once people take to rioting, it can become habit. ...Once people take to rioting, it can become habit. Violence can become an expected civic reaction to outrages. That's my fear as to what is happening in Paris suburbs. It can take years to quell violence, because you have to play a psychological game where change those expectations. Here in LA, everyone braced for riots for several years in the mid-1990s, as various verdicts were read concerning Reginald Denny et al. Fortunately, the city seemed too tired to really have them, too scarred by the 1992 events. Now, riots are unlikely in part because current youth have no experience rioting.The Law Talking Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17886791396468512490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-31867881000153946372007-11-28T12:24:00.000-08:002007-11-28T12:24:00.000-08:00He is being more careful. We aren't hearing about ...He is being more careful. We aren't hearing about "scum". But he has worked toward stiffening criminal penalties for juveniles who are committing crimes, especially against officers. They can now be tired as adults. Is any of this sound familiar? Haven't we been here before in the US?<BR/><BR/>Sarko has appointed a woman of Arab extraction to help address the problems in the suburbs. She has been holding town hall meetings to get a handle on what can and what needs to be done. And the government has reached out to neighborhood associations etc. But since little substantial change has resulted, these efforts are seen as window dressing. <BR/><BR/>The problem for any government is the issue of speed and of positive reinforcement. You can't reward rioting by dumping ton of money on the suburbs. For starters, too much money at once is as bad if not worse than too little. It breeds corruption and waste. Secondly, you have to do urban planning. If you say, for instance, that the big projects that the socialist government built in the 1980s are inhumane, then what is a built out city supposed to do? It takes time to tear down old buildings and make new ones. You have to relocate people, etc. It takes time to build out metro lines (which rioting discourages because who wants rioting 'riff-raff' in the city center), etc. So what really has to happen is urban renewal. Policy is slow to catch up with the realities on the grown.<BR/><BR/>Now for the controversial part: People who come from places where there is no civil society fail to understand proper use of grass roots power. They operate off of a victimization platform rather than one of empowerment. They wait for government solutions rather than trying to find their own local solutions. The problems in these neighborhoods is huge. But rioting doesn't help the situation. It just makes the general public angry and ruins those bright spots where good things are happening, such as businesses and schools. <BR/><BR/>Now in short order, the government could put more Arab or Muslim cops on the beat. That would probably go a long way toward helping PR in these neighborhoods. It would provide jobs and a place in civil society for some of these young men. And the 10 year olds who are throwing Molotov cocktails at police, would have a future career path.USWesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07572294996079264655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-83906754272472485722007-11-28T05:38:00.000-08:002007-11-28T05:38:00.000-08:00Is Sarkozy keeping his mouth shut this time?Is Sarkozy keeping his mouth shut this time?Raised By Republicanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03461006522141969925noreply@blogger.com