tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post116510748787877276..comments2024-01-03T05:23:36.046-08:00Comments on The Citizens: Continuing the (R)evolution?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-1165255362858560352006-12-04T10:02:00.000-08:002006-12-04T10:02:00.000-08:00"This shouldn’t threaten the U.S. anymore than Swe..."This shouldn’t threaten the U.S. anymore than Sweden does."<BR/><BR/>Absolutely! Besides Chavez is a bigger threat to Venuzuela than he is to the US. Sooner or later (apparently it will be later), the people there will realize that Chavez is ruining their economy and is at least as authoritarian as any of the center-right types the US has backed in the recent past (it remains to be seen if Chavez has the potential to be as nasty as Pinochet. But I'd bet he's on par with Fujimori). <BR/><BR/><A></A><A></A>// posted by<A><B> </B></A>RBRAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-1165253455235686392006-12-04T09:30:00.000-08:002006-12-04T09:30:00.000-08:00I agree with RBR. Capitalism generates the wealth ...I agree with RBR. Capitalism generates the wealth that should be plowed back into the state. But this isn’t happening in Latin America. In Latin America, you had this system where wealth was generated on the backs of the poor and then put into the pockets of the very wealthy. This is still the case and it happens in Africa as well. And I’d argue that under Republican Administrations this is what happens in the U.S. Look at our tax structure and you will see such "redistrubution" from the bottom up.<BR/><BR/>Latin Americans are rejecting the "traditional" leaders who were often part of the "Washington Consensus" and choosing people more like them, leaders like Morales. When the gaps between the rich and poor as so huge, as they are in many parts of Latin America, when the land distribution is so skewed, a free election will result in a more populist candidate winning. This is a genuine step forward for democracy. In fact, UN surveys, some of which have been reported on in the Economist, tell us that Latin Americans were becoming apathetic about democracy because the promised rewards weren’t being met. However, now they are making democracy work for them by voting in their own self interest.<BR/><BR/>I think it tells you something when the U.S. endorses former bankers as candidates. It shows how out of touch we are. I think it tells you something when the U.S. endorses a candidate in a foreign election period. You don't see them doing that to say, France or the U.K.<BR/><BR/>I'd point out that the Administration has made little attempt to mitigate the opinion that it can get rid of Iraq's Malwi whenever it wants. This type of thing has to stop. There is a huge North-South debate going on right now and the South is looking for a “third way” that will fit their needs. I am not sure they are looking to a Scandinavian model, but if that is what they come up with, then so be it. This shouldn’t threaten the U.S. anymore than Sweden does.<BR/> <BR/><BR/><A></A><A></A>// posted by<A><B> </B></A>USWestAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-1165232667539624492006-12-04T03:44:00.000-08:002006-12-04T03:44:00.000-08:00LTG may be over stating this. From what I hear th...LTG may be over stating this. From what I hear there is not an anti-capitalist movement afoot. Rather there is a strong committment to government run anti-poverty programs. With the possible exception of Chavez no one is talking about abolishing capitalism. They just want bigger welfare states and higher taxes. <BR/><BR/>We have to remember that Sweden never abolished capitalism. On the contrary, Swedish companies enthusiasticly engaged in world trade with the approval and support of their government. <BR/><BR/>We need to get away from the false dichotomy of the kind of right wing corporatism of Republican style capitalism and everything else. Republicans say if you don't do it our way you're a "socialist" or "communist." But that's simply not true and when progressives buy into that we only help the GOP pin heads. <BR/><BR/><A></A><A></A>// posted by<A><B> </B></A>RBRAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-1165209048720174272006-12-03T21:10:00.000-08:002006-12-03T21:10:00.000-08:00Word is that Chavez won in a landslide, some 61% o...Word is that Chavez won in a landslide, some 61% of the vote. I think USWest is on to something. I think that Latin America in the 1990s flirted with free markets, capitalism, and American-style economics and government. Under Bush II, there is a reversion to the policies of the 1970s and 1980s. <BR/> <BR/><BR/><A></A><A></A>// posted by<A><B> </B></A>LTGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-1165196145943410842006-12-03T17:35:00.000-08:002006-12-03T17:35:00.000-08:00Chavez is up for re-election. They just voted toda...Chavez is up for re-election. They just voted today. The middle class is set against him. The very poor are all for him. So the outcome will be interesting. I doubt the election is free and fair. The country is now bracing for protests, no matter who wins, <BR/><BR/><A></A><A></A>// posted by<A><B> </B></A>USWestAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-1165187905609720612006-12-03T15:18:00.000-08:002006-12-03T15:18:00.000-08:00It's interesting that when we look at these leader...It's interesting that when we look at these leaders in depth they reveal themselves to be more moderate than Chavez. While Chavez likes to see himself as Castro with oil and better health (and an even bigger ego), the other leaders are more like Scandinavian leaders of old. They are a lot like European Social Democrats like Olaf Palme or Anker Joergensen. <BR/><BR/>I recently heard a paper presentation that argued that they even are more or less pro-trade even while they support a large welfare state. That combination of policies was pioneered in the small, trade exposed countries of North Western Europe. <BR/><BR/>If they manage to establish a pro-trade welfare approach in Latin America, then perhaps Bush's obsession with killing people in the Middle East will benefit someone.  <BR/><BR/><A></A><A></A>// posted by<A><B> </B></A>RBRAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com