tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post114339658865148828..comments2024-01-03T05:23:36.046-08:00Comments on The Citizens: The Protest is Not in Our ScheduleUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-1144977508777845632006-04-13T18:18:00.000-07:002006-04-13T18:18:00.000-07:00While it's kind of nice to blame Republicans entir...While it's kind of nice to blame Republicans entirely for this mess, the fact is that Democrats aren't really helping, in their current "let's not co-operate on anything, and blame the Republicans when it goes wrong" mode. Liberating, but childish.<BR/><BR/>Neither party will make any attempt to fix things, not even after some major city gets nuked or the Mexican Army invades San Antonio. Each party will wonder how they might possibly get votes out of the event-de-jour. <BR/><BR/>I personally won't complain, unless I don't get to watch South Park make fun of our collapse of society, like they did this week. Then I'll do something serious, like post an opinion!  <BR/><BR/><A></A><A></A>// posted by<A><B> </B></A><A HREF="http://thecitizens.blogspot.com/2006/03/protest-is-not-in-our-schedule.html" REL="nofollow" TITLE="llamikado at yahoo dot com">Stanley Kubrick Fan</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-1143589844915736792006-03-28T15:50:00.000-08:002006-03-28T15:50:00.000-08:00Good point. I guess I'd say replace #2 with #6. ...Good point. I guess I'd say replace #2 with #6. Instead of criminalizing illegal immigration, we should criminalize the hiring of illegal immigrants AND the exploitation of illegal immigrants. That approach would have a more gentle effect on the immigrants themselves. They would gradually be weeded out of the labor market.<BR/><BR/>I thought of another thing. #7: End agricultural subsidies. Most of these illegal immigrants are ag workers from farms in Central America and Mexico that have been driven out of business by US ag products that are dumped on their markets at subsidized prices. Ending the subsidies here would allow these people to make a good living in their own home communities - reducing population pressure and budgetary pressure here and reducing poverty there. <BR/><BR/><A></A><A></A>// posted by<A><B> </B></A><A HREF="http://thecitizens.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow" TITLE="">Raised By Republicans</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-1143575346656715312006-03-28T11:49:00.000-08:002006-03-28T11:49:00.000-08:00RxR... while I understand the spirit of your #6--a...RxR... while I understand the spirit of your #6--and it makes sense in the current situation--if we *were* to fully implement #1 and #2, then #6 would not make sense.Dr. Strangelovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14407042105777411150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-1143549691725920042006-03-28T04:41:00.000-08:002006-03-28T04:41:00.000-08:00I'd add 6) Give "illegal" immigrant collective bar...I'd add <BR/><BR/>6) Give "illegal" immigrant collective bargaining rights and make it easier for them report employers for violating minimum wage, OSHA and EPA regulations. <BR/><BR/>Employers use their "illegal" status to get around these neccessary but costly regulations.  <BR/><BR/><A></A><A></A>// posted by<A><B> </B></A><A HREF="http://thecitizens.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow" TITLE="">Raised By Republicans</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-1143505121020101882006-03-27T16:18:00.000-08:002006-03-27T16:18:00.000-08:00I like it! // posted by USwestI like it! <BR/><BR/><A></A><A></A>// posted by<A><B> </B></A>USwestAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-1143486161457409812006-03-27T11:02:00.000-08:002006-03-27T11:02:00.000-08:00Here's my five-point plan to solve what I perceive...Here's my five-point plan to solve what I perceive to be the worst problems of illegal or undocumented immigration: the threat to national security, the competition with domestic labor (real or perceived), the Kafka-esque red tape of the INS that stops grandmothers from coming to live with their children, and the criminal exploitation of certain workers already here.<BR/><BR/><B>1. Lift immigration quotas.</B> As we have done for most of U.S. history, let's allow anyone to come here who wants to be with their family or to work here (except of course for those with a criminal record, those who advocate violent overthrow of our government, etc.) This will be a huge step toward documenting and registering everyone who lives in this country--critical for national security. I also see it as an aspect of free trade: if goods and capital can cross borders freely, why not labor? Surely free market economics favors the unimpeded movement of all factors of production? No guest-worker programs, no second-class citizens: everyone is treated the same, with the full opportunities our grandparents had when they came here.<BR/><BR/><B>2. Criminalize illegal immigration.</B> This includes hiring illegals, and otherwise aiding and abetting illegal immigration--and give the police the authority to demand citizenship papers in circumstances when they are currently allowed to ask for an ID. But please note--without #1, I would never accept #2. The point is, if #1 is accomplished, then I am OK with arresting and deporting those we have deemed unsuitable to enter the U.S., or those who refused to register themselves. (Overstaying a visa would be punishable by a civil fine for a few weeks slippage, and deportation if it's been more like a year--but it would neither be a felony nor an impediment to obtaining a future visa. We must not mistake honest erros and red tape for bad behavior.)<BR/><BR/><B>3. Enhanced, Properly-Focused Border Patrols.</B> Some say we should put up a fence, and the Minutemen want to put vigilantes... but did you ever notice these are all about the Southern border? Those who care about security already understand taht the largest undefended border in the <B>world</B> is to the North, not the South. Furthermore, terrorists have already tried to come in through Canada. On security grounds, you'd need to build a wall against Canada first, and that's infeasible anyhow. The solution is to have enhanced border patrols on land and sea, at all points of the compass. The current border patrol focus on stopping economic migrants, rather than terrorists, is bad for security.<BR/><BR/><B>4. General amnesty.</B> None of the precautions listed above will be effective if we do not offer general amnesty to the 12 million or so people already here illegally. The only sensible solution is a general amnesty: have them come in, surrender their false documents, prove their identities, and get real documents. Not only does this go a long way toward solving a huge security problem, but this underclass would then have the full protection of the law, to prevent exploitation. Furthermore, this would also alleviate the cut-rate competition they allegedly provide to domestic labor, since now everyone would play by the same rules.<BR/><BR/><B>5. English education.</B> A massive, highly subsidized program to provide adult education in English to immigrants would help them integrate into the workforce. We should of course make every effort to help their children as well.<BR/><BR/>This just seems right to me. I am not afraid of immigration--it's what made our nation great. I am not afraid of the hispanic culture--and it's already here. It's already a thriving, wonderful part of the American tapestry, as the Chinese, Irish, Polish, etc. came before. <BR/><BR/>In the end, what I want is a <B>welcome and safe society</B>. And you don't get safety by turning us into Fortress America: that old folly never works. In truth, our most valuable resources in the fight against terrorism are the immigrant communities themselves. It's time we started treating those who wish to come to our home as friends, not enemies. As a nation of immigrants, any other course is unworthy.Dr. Strangelovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14407042105777411150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-1143473153310248342006-03-27T07:25:00.000-08:002006-03-27T07:25:00.000-08:00Many Republicans complain that jobs are being ship...Many Republicans complain that jobs are being shipped overseas. Well yes, because labor costs are lower. If Republicans want to go on bragging about all the "jobs" they are creating, then they need to keep allowing the illegal immigrants to take those meinal jobs that Americans won't take.<BR/><BR/>In the Central Valley, whites complain that "they want us to change our way of life. They come here and don't learn out langauge and they take advantages of our services."<BR/><BR/>Well, my standard response to this is, "Are you unemployed?" Them: No, but to get a job here now you have to speak Spanish. "Did you have to speak Spanish to get your job?" Suddenly the room gets quiet. My next question: "Do you want to pay $10 for a head of lettuce?" Them: No. they can do those jobs, but they shouldn't be allowed to do other jobs. "well, then you ahve already agreed then that they can be here. So what exactly is you beef?" Them: quiet. "Do you want to the social security checks to keep coming? Because without immigration, there is a negative birth rate in this country and some one has to pay your social security." Studdering. But. . . but . . . But . . . But there isn't enough room. "Really? I see pleanty of land that Farmers are selling to developers. I just drove over miles of land that is uninhabited except for cows and windmills. I wouldn't mind a little house out on some of that wide open land. There is pleanty of room. There are no buts?" Quiet. The logic won't matter, though. They want to resent someone and that is who they will resent. They need a scapegoat. That is what arguements about immigration and migration always boil down to. <BR/><BR/>These people risk their lives to come here. Do you think that if they had a choice they would get on the Train of Death? I say anyone who risks what these people risk to get here, gets to stay. They earned it. I was just born here. <BR/><BR/><A></A><A></A>// posted by<A><B> </B></A>USwestAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-1143464570928817142006-03-27T05:02:00.000-08:002006-03-27T05:02:00.000-08:00Not only do these employers need the flow of worke...Not only do these employers need the flow of workers to continue they need them to be "illegal." If these employers were confronted with a mass of legal migrant workers who had rights to organize and recourse to our worker protection laws, the employers would lose their subsidy.<BR/><BR/>I suggest that simultaneously demanding strict immigration laws and resisting their effective enforcement is central to the business plans of much of the ag, construction and hospitality industries. <BR/><BR/>Think of immigration laws (and their showy but lax enforcement) as a massive agricultural subsidy for the artificial desert agriculture of California.  <BR/><BR/><A></A><A></A>// posted by<A><B> </B></A><A HREF="http://thecitizens.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow" TITLE="">Raised By Republicans</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com