tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post113053197654422089..comments2024-01-03T05:23:36.046-08:00Comments on The Citizens: All the Vice-President's MenUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-1130952126436986172005-11-02T09:22:00.000-08:002005-11-02T09:22:00.000-08:00Eloquently put, US West!Eloquently put, US West!Dr. Strangelovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14407042105777411150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-1130859101775529582005-11-01T07:31:00.000-08:002005-11-01T07:31:00.000-08:00RBR and Bob make excellent points. I would only th...RBR and Bob make excellent points. I would only that Liberty is a process. It evolves over time. In our system, we believe that liberty is something that we are born with, thus it is an unalienable right. I am not sure you can protect liberty so much as guide the process that enriches liberty. But to guide the process, one must understand the underlying values that lead to it in the very beginning. So you have to be very careful about the means used to guide the "liberation process". If your motives are impure, then you have already destroyed the very meaning of liberty.<BR/><BR/>The problem with neo-cons and their ilk is that they have never understood or valued the values that underpin our system. They don't get that our nation is built on the power of ideas, not brute force. Power for them is not about protecting life and liberty of the nation,or about taking a principled stance, but about getting everything we can from everyone else. This is the case with many extreme political groups. For all their pandering to the religious, they have no real soul. They are strawmen.<BR/> <BR/><BR/><A></A><A></A>// posted by<A><B> </B></A>USWestAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-1130711457180986402005-10-30T14:30:00.000-08:002005-10-30T14:30:00.000-08:00Thanks Steve. Stop by any time! // posted by...Thanks Steve. Stop by any time! <BR/><BR/><A></A><A></A>// posted by<A><B> </B></A><A HREF="http://thecitizens.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow" TITLE="">Raised By Republicans</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-1130682320107515692005-10-30T06:25:00.000-08:002005-10-30T06:25:00.000-08:00Great site!Great site!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-1130682181456452172005-10-30T06:23:00.000-08:002005-10-30T06:23:00.000-08:00The thing that disturbs me the most, is that it to...The thing that disturbs me the most, is that it took two years for all of this to emerge! Sure, it takes time to dig-up details, but for the investigation to take two years, merely tells me that the administration did nothing to aid the investigation, therefore, had to have something to hide. I sincerely hope the process exposes the "man behind the curtain" in all of this! Ps. I've added this site to my blogroll. That, and a couple of bucks will buy you a fair cup of coffee. :) <BR/><BR/><A></A><A></A>// posted by<A><B> </B></A><A HREF="http://Steven.MetzgerFamily.Net" REL="nofollow" TITLE="steven at metzgerfamily dot net">Steve</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-1130616682403513152005-10-29T13:11:00.000-07:002005-10-29T13:11:00.000-07:00LTG, without defending the Bush adminsitration, if...LTG, without defending the Bush adminsitration, if they were actually defending liberty with all their extremism I doubt there'd be so many problems. But they are carrying out naked power politics abroad (but only to the benefit of a select group of powerful interests) and carrying out an assault on liberty here at home.<BR/><BR/>This raises the quesion. Can one defend liberty at all by extreme means? I think the answer is mostly likely no. And I think that is really LTG's point. <BR/><BR/>What Goldwater did not understand when he said that quotation but seems to have grasped late in life was that liberty is not something that can put in a jar on a shelf while you go fight for it like a trophy or something. You cannot "defend liberty" you either have it or you don't. And in the end, even tyrrants can't take it away from a population unwilling to submit (e.g. 1989 and all that). <BR/><BR/><A></A><A></A>// posted by<A><B> </B></A><A HREF="http://thecitizens.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow" TITLE="">Raised By Republicans</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-1130597497284347772005-10-29T07:51:00.000-07:002005-10-29T07:51:00.000-07:00"These right wingers think that, as Goldwater said..."<I>These right wingers think that, as Goldwater said, "extremism in defense of liberty is no vice."</I> "<BR/><BR/>This seems to me to echo the previous comments in the <A HREF="http://http://thecitizens.blogspot.com/2005/10/george-will.html#comments" REL="nofollow">discussion of George Will's article</A>  about opportunists vs. idealists. <BR/><BR/>The thing that strikes me (and infuriates me) about the current regime is that they seem to have extended the philosophy of "the ends justifies the means" to "if there's an end, that justifies the means". The Iran-Contra scandal was reprehensible, but at least the treacherous bastards thought they were doing it for a greater good. <BR/><BR/>The "end" in this affaire seems to be little more than bullying. At best, bullying to keep the fear, uncertainty, and doubt about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction as justification for the war. If this was a war to defend the free world from the Commies, we'd be in Iran-Contra territory. If it were a war that had two wisps of being about fighting terrorism, the whole WMD fraud would've been unnecessary.<BR/><BR/>As far as I can see, we went to war because the neo-cons wanted to invade Iraq. And for this, sowing baseless claims about yellowcake from Nigeria is apparently justified. As is compromising an undercover CIA agent just to discredit someone who calls those claims baseless. As is obstructing the investigation into that act of, and I think I'm being kind here, minor treason.<BR/><BR/>These people aren't even misguided, just amoral. They do what they want; if it's what they want, it's an end, and any means to achieve it is therefore justified. <BR/><BR/>My heart is weeping, that my country is being used by these people. <BR/><BR/><A></A><A></A>// posted by<A><B> </B></A><A HREF="http://thecitizens.blogspot.com/2005/10/all-vice-presidents-men.html#comments" REL="nofollow" TITLE="bob dot wieman at bris dot ac dot uk">Bob</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-1130592103284831502005-10-29T06:21:00.000-07:002005-10-29T06:21:00.000-07:00Yep, and now everyone is mentioning Watergate. So ...Yep, and now everyone is mentioning Watergate. So it goes. <BR/><BR/>I like something I heard on NPR this morning. It is attributed to Mark Shields by Linda Wertheimer. This isn't an exact quote, but close. "There are two things you have to remember about investigations in Washington. 1: they never get you for what you did;they get you for covering it up. Number 2: No one ever remembers the difference." <BR/><BR/><A></A><A></A>// posted by<A><B> </B></A>USWestAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6762928.post-1130534211971339652005-10-28T14:16:00.000-07:002005-10-28T14:16:00.000-07:00This is just like Ollie North and Nixon. These ri...This is just like Ollie North and Nixon. These right wingers think that, as Goldwater said, "extremism in defense of liberty is no vice." And they will lie, cheat, and steal if they think the end is justified. The end is, of course, protecting their leader, at any cost.  <BR/><BR/><A></A><A></A>// posted by<A><B> </B></A>LTGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com